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Main Goals of this Meeting

1) Highlights of Internet Identity Workshop #34, including the ACDC for Muggles presentation given by Drummond Reed and Samuel Smith and the Reference Architecture for the ToIP stack presentation given by Wenjing Chu, 2) discussion of a "hybrid approach" that can accommodate the new protocols the OpenID Foundation is developing to use OIDC with verifiable credentialsReport on the European Identity Conference, 2) Report on ToIP Technology Architecture Specification progress, 3) Discussion of a proposed AI Trust Issues Task Force.

 

Agenda Items and Notes (including all relevant links)

Trust Registry TF — 
  • Drummond Reed noted the strong interest in the ToIP Trust Registry Protocol Specification by the WHO Expert Group on Digital Health Trust Networks.
  • v1.0 - Document moved to github and work to move comments to Issues is starting.
  • DISCUSS - using one of the weekly TATF meetings to review.Wenjing Chu
    Samuel Smith
    Drummond Reed
    Andre Kudra
    TimeAgenda ItemLeadNotes
    5 min
    • Start recording
    • Welcome & antitrust notice
    • Introduction of new members
    • Agenda review
    Chairs
    • Antitrust Policy Notice: Attendees are reminded to adhere to the meeting agenda and not participate in activities prohibited under antitrust and competition laws. Only members of ToIP who have signed the necessary agreements are permitted to participate in this activity beyond an observer role.
    • New Members:
      • Christine Martin: Works with Darrell at Continuum Loop, based Ottawa
    5 minGeneral announcementsAll

    Updates from TSWG members of general interest to the group.

    • Drummond Reed mentioned that the European Identity Conference is next week.EIC Update (Drummond) - 
    0 minsReview of Action Items from the previous meetingChairsThere were no notes from the last meeting due to the Easter holiday.15 minsTask Force ReportsTF Leads
    •  will check with Lucy Yang about the status of the WHO trust registry work.
    •  ACTION: Drummond Reed to contact Wenjing Chu to ask him to do a Zoom recording of his Reference Architecture for the ToIP stack presentation given at Internet Identity Workshop.
    •  ACTION: Darrell O'Donnell suggests that we put on the agenda for our next meeting the question of where we want TSWG to go post-publication of the ToIP Technology Architecture Specification (which we hope to do by the end of Q2). Daniel Bachenheimer also wants us to define how levels of assurance for both issuers and verifiers are defined in an interoperable way.
    15 minsTask Force ReportsTF Leads

    Trust Registry TF — Darrell O'Donnell

    • TR Spec - prepare to get out
      • remove ancillaries, focus on markdown and images and Christine Martin to send out notice to the Technology Stack WG mailing list and Slack channel that we will dedicate the March 12 Technology Architecture Task Force meetings (NA/EU and APAC) to review the ToIP Trust Registry Protocol Specification in depth, and then hold an approval vote at the next TSWG meeting on May 16.ACTION: Darrell O'Donnell will check with Lucy Yang about the status of the WHO trust registry work.

    ACDC TF — Samuel Smith Phil Feairheller 

    Technology Architecture TF — Drummond Reed

    • IIW renewed interest 
    • Sam pushed draft to IETF

    Technology Architecture TF — Wenjing Chu

    • structure of Draft reviewed
    • many issues point to Neil's (5G) concerns being fully handled at Layers 3/4.
    • Adjusted ToC in document shows more structure.
    • D&D raised that we will need a first-class "here's the 4-layer stack" portion of the document. 


    15 mins

    Report from the European Identity Conference

    Highlights included:

    • Lots of discussion of the European Digital Identity Wallets initiative. Here is an excellent overview of the entire EUDI landscape (Medium article for big picture of EUDI).
      • big picture is attractive but the process will be messy
      • The session on the ToIP stack and ToIP Foundation was very well received because we are addressing the precise interoperability problems that the EUDI work is wrestling with.
    • Announcement of the OpenID Verifiable Credentials white paper: https://openid.net/2022/05/12/openid-for-verifiable-credentials-whitepaper/
      • This was a major focus of the OIDF members attending—and also a major thrust of GAIN.
    • Lots more discussion about GAIN, the Global Assured Identity Network
      • There were at least a half-dozen sessions on different aspects of GAIN
      • Nick Mothershaw of the Open Identity Exchange gave a session on how they are proceeding with work on a Global Interoperability Framework. This is a huge effort that may take a very long time.
      •  There were also several sessions discussing how BankID systems can be federated together into the GAIN network.
      • The final session was an 11 member panel that included Didier Serra speaking about Avast's perspective on GAIN and Judith Fleenor sharing that the ToIP Foundation is interested in helping with how GAIN could benefit from the ToIP stack.
      • The next step will be further meetings on GAIN at Identiverse in Denver in June.
      • The ToIP Foundation has not formally joined the GAIN Forum but it may consider that step, especially if GAIN agrees to update its original white paper, which is now over a year out of date.
    10minsTask Force - AI Trust Issues

    Discussion of potential for a task force on AI and trust.

    • do we need to rethink our architecture due to the impacts of AI
    • Wenjing presented at IIW
    • A biometric identifier is regularly floated. AI may present a fundamentally different way of looking at things.
      • e.g. privacy-preserving age recognition could speed up processes.
    • Vikas Malhotra supports concept and will assist Wenjing Chu 
      • added trustworthiness of data;
      • how the AIs work with each other;
      • how does a person determine trustworthiness "on the fly"
    • NEXT STEPS
      • Create a wiki page with light charter
        • Deliverables:
          • whitepaper
          • proposal future work
      • Vote at TSWG to establish 
    • structured/unstructured trust 
      • e.g. social media models of us are using both, and current systems can't stop that (incentives and controls are out of whack). 

    ACTION: Wenjing Chu and Vikas Malhotra to draft a wiki page for the charter of an AI Identity Trust Issue Task Force.

    10 minsNext steps for the TSWG after completion of the ToIP Technology Architecture Spec

    All

    • Do we want to look at a layer-by-layer or slice (through all layers) approach to get to an interoperability approach?
    • Wenjing Chu suggests that we can focus on very specific protocols required for interoperability.
      • Drummond Reed suggested that could work well for the OIDC4VC protocols.
    • Daniel Bachenheimer also would like
    20 minsRecap of highlights of IIW #34

    Discussion of major takeaways from the Internet Identity Workshop.

    • Phil Feairheller said that one of the major benefits was attendees being able to meet each other. Drummond completely agreed.
    • Phil said that there were a lot of conversation about KERI and ACDC on the first day that did not include the KERI and ACDC members. But the second and third day those conversations "came around again" to include folks from other projects that were now discussing how they could incorporate KERI and ACDC.
    • This lead to a session held on the third day jointly hosted by Samuel Smith and Markus Sabadello called Building a Tunnel to the KERI Beautiful Island
      • This session showed many examples of how to put a "KERI tunnel" into any DID document using a new type of service endpoint. This can work with almost any DID method — Markus showed examples with a half-dozen well-known DID methods.
      • The GLEIF team also announced they are working on a project called CESROX that will be a Rust for CESR.
      • Drummond Reed said he felt that session was the one that finally convinced a number of developers was something they could realistically start using very soon.
    • Phil summarized that the entire GLEIF team, including CEO Stephan Wolf, attended and gave a total of 12 sessions.
      • Drummond said that his impression was that it made a big difference for IIW attendees to see the depth and breadth of the vLEI infrastructure work, including the vLEI Ecosystem Governance Framework
      • Andre Kudra shared that he was part of discussions where folks were surprised that GLEIF has put so much effort into a tech stack that—so far—no one else is using (which is why Drummond called it the Beautiful Island problem).
    10 minsGAIN and the importance of a "hybrid" approach
    Drummond Reed
    Andre Kudra

    Discussion of the interest of GAIN in ToIP and the question of how ToIP can accommodate a "hybrid" approach to incorporating protocols like OpenID SIOP and OIDC4VC.

    • Drummond Reed explained that there was strong interest of GAIN representatives in having the ToIP Foundation become another participant in the GAIN Forum.
    • This would require a "hybrid" architecture that would make it clear how a federation protocol like OIDC can fit within and work with the ToIP stack.
    • esatus is one of the leaders in developing such a hybrid architecture that can bridge existing IAM systems. ToIP Steering Member IdRamp has also pursued a hybrid architecture as well.
    • Daniel Bachenheimer mentioned that Accenture recently published a paper about such hybrid systems: https://www.accenture.com/_acnmedia/PDF-173/Accenture-Decentralize-Digital-Identity.pdf 
    • ACTION: Darrell O'Donnell suggests that we put on the agenda for our next meeting the question of where we want TSWG to go post-publication of the ToIP Technology Architecture Specification (which we hope to do by the end of Q2). Daniel Bachenheimer also wants
    • us to define how levels of assurance for both issuers and verifiers are defined in an interoperable way.
    5 mins
    • Review decisions/action items
    • Planning for next meeting 
    Chairs

    Decisions

    •  None

    Action Items