Meeting Date & Time

    • 09:00-10:00 PT / 16:00-17:00 UTC 

Zoom Meeting Links / Recordings




Main Goal of this Meeting

This is the AIM TF's #9 meeting.

Our main goal is to have individual member presentations on what problems/challenges they see in AI & Metaverse related to trust.

Agenda Items and Notes (including all relevant links)

TimeAgenda ItemLeadNotes
5 min
  • Start recording
  • Welcome & antitrust notice
  • Introduction of new members
  • Agenda review
  • Antitrust Policy Notice: Attendees are reminded to adhere to the meeting agenda and not participate in activities prohibited under antitrust and competition laws.
  • ToIP Policy: Only members of ToIP who have signed the necessary agreements are permitted to participate in this activity beyond an observer role.
  • ToIP TSWG IPR Policy: see TF wiki page. AI & Metaverse Technology Task Force
5 min
  • Introduction of new members
  • Recap of last week's meeting
  • Status update on action items
  • Any general announcement, news, that could be of interest to the TF
  • Discussions on the just completed Ecosystem WG meeting - refreshingly frank. Judith Fleenor 
  • Judith Fleenor reminds people of this Friday's communication committee meeting and next week's All Members meeting.
  • Neil Thomson reported work starting at the ISWG on trust of data that is not a verifiable credential but general data container.

40 minsHow AI & Metaverse intersect with ToIP stack? New design principles for ToIP stack?Wenjing Chu 

Slide deck:

Wenjing Chu orient our work to identify what additional principles or updates we need, what updates to the stack we need, to address requirements arising from AI and metaverse. Potential work items coming out of the discussions today: trust/threat modeling, consent negotiation, definitions, multiple calculus of trust, visual/verbal cues for trust tasks (user experience)...

There were lively chats :

09:19:54 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    And it was a decent movie too!
09:28:33 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    From our forthcoming BCoE White paper:
09:30:02 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    Despite all the interest in and news around metaverse, there remains confusion about whether the term ‘metaverse’ is just a rebranded version of the virtual worlds that have been around for nearly two decades— such as Second Life or World of Warcraft—or if it something new.  We don’t even have agreement upon whether the term is singular or plural. Two prevailing approaches attempt to define ‘metaverse’.
09:30:05 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    One approach has the minimal requirement of a metaverse as a virtual world, i.e., a computer-generated environment, so there are many metaverses here already.  The other approach defines a single futuristic metaverse comprising a three-dimensional, immersive digital universe that seamlessly connects users to any virtual world.  The requirements for a single metaverse have not yet been achieved, such as interoperability, portability, and real-time rendering.  Gartner estimated that the metaverse is more than ten years away.  Metaverses (plural) are where we are today, with multiple virtual worlds that cannot yet interact with one another, let alone exchange value, or transport our avatars (digital representations of ourselves), virtual goods, and virtual money across metaverses.
09:31:37 From Neil Thomson to Everyone:
    Very sceptical that 3D is required for immersive. 3D has been brought forward several times (I have a 3D LCD tv from 10 years ago).           A problem for 3D is the orders of magnitude of effort, processing and bandwidth to create. And as Humans are very good at mentally mapping from 2 to 3D, it suggests that 2D "immersion" will be of (for some time) sufficient value.          That would suggest putting 3D aside and focus on other aspects of "immersion". For example - automatic negotiation and compliance on personal data use and presentation
09:32:05 From Jacques Bikoundou to Everyone:
    Agreed, @Mary!
09:32:32 From Judith Fleenor (Trust Over IP) to Everyone:
    Thanks Mary.  As someone who was an early adopter of Second Life, I've ben wondering what's all the buzz about Metaverses, but you explained what's new is trying to make them interoperate.
09:34:46 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    Meta Quest captures all our data for their own monetization…we need privacy enhancing hardware but they are expensie
09:35:37 From Jacques Bikoundou to Everyone:
    Yes, data monetization continues to be a pain point!
09:42:08 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    On the previous slide, bravo on the multiple calculus of trust—we assess the trust of the technology (reliable, safe, available) and the governance of the technology (competency, integrity, benevolence)
09:51:15 From Jacques Bikoundou to Everyone:
    Is there a link to the slides?
09:51:21 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    Yes, good point Neil back to the point of multiplicity of trust
09:51:44 From Wenjing Chu to Everyone:
09:51:58 From Wenjing Chu to Everyone:
    The link is also in the agenda page
09:52:08 From Judith Fleenor (Trust Over IP) to Wenjing Chu(Direct Message):
    Do you want to stop sharing?
09:52:52 From Jacques Bikoundou to Everyone:
09:53:32 From Vikas Malhotra to Everyone:
    Great discussion. Thanks for this Wenjing. I have to unfortunately drop now.
09:55:06 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    Neil…you are talking about trusting the issuer of a credential
09:56:27 From Neil Thomson to Everyone:
    @ Mary - much more than that. Exchanging VCs is only small part of trust.          Trusting what data is being extracted from my immersive interaction and what is being done with it.
09:57:52 From Neil Thomson to Everyone:
    And how do we (and issuers) continually validate that the entity covered by a VC continues to be in conformance?
09:58:21 From Jacques Bikoundou to Everyone:
    I think when data is extracted from one's immersive experience, we're dealing with consent management.
09:59:12 From Neil Thomson to Everyone:
    @ Jacques - yes, but that consent may be very sophisticated.
09:59:23 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    Yes, great job and appreciate all the comments too!
10:00:16 From Mary Lacity to Everyone:
    Negotiated consent! Love it
10:02:10 From Judith Fleenor (Trust Over IP) to Everyone:
    Thank you for the presentation.  I've got to drop.

5 minsAI Safety - State of, 2022Wenjing Chu If time allows, otherwise queue for next time. Postponed to a future meeting.
5 mins
  • Call for presentations for October 27
  • Review decisions/action items
  • Planning for next meeting 
  • AOB

Call for action: Can this TF work on recommendations of these aspects raised in today's and previous meetings?

Call for action: Continue to call for surveys/discussions of challenges in AI & Metaverse related to trust.

Screenshots/Diagrams (numbered for reference in notes above)



Action Items

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