Meeting Date

  • The CTWG meets bi-weekly on Mondays at 10:00-11:00 PT / 18:00-19:00 UTC. See the ToIP Calendar for the full schedule.

Zoom Meeting Recording


Agenda Items and Notes (including all relevant links)

TimeAgenda ItemLeadNotes
3 min
  • Start recording
  • Welcome & antitrust notice
  • Introduction of new members
  • Agenda review
  • Antitrust Policy Notice: Attendees are reminded to adhere to the meeting agenda and not participate in activities prohibited under antitrust and competition laws. Only members of ToIP who have signed the necessary agreements are permitted to participate in this activity beyond an observer role.
  • New Members:
5 minGeneral announcementsAll

Any news and updates of general interest to CTWG members

  • TNO is preparing a game that is provisionally called "Concept Quest", which is a variant on "I spy with my eye...". They will be looking for guinea-pigs to play the game and provide feedback in terms of (a) all sorts of experiences and (b) concrete suggestions for improvements of the rules. They expect there will be different versions, e.g. one for people that need to learn what criteria are all about, another one for people that want a game to result in really good definitions, and perhaps another one for those that also want to create documentation around such definitions.
  • Henk van Cann shared that the ACDC group has changed from Algolia as a search engine to TypeSense because the latter has a much better invoicing system. it is the only way (apart from using Google) to index an arbitrary amount of data for searching for specific terms — especially for their level of understanding.
  • Drummond Reed shared that at the European Identity Conference there was a super high level of interest in decentralized identity and in particular the eIDAS 2.0 plans. He also observed that eIDAS 2.0 is filled with hard-to-understand jargon. He believed that next year's EIC might welcome a talk about the ToIP Glossary.
  • Rieks Joosten pointed out two recent blogs from Daniel Hardman that he felt were wonderful example of how to make ToIP concepts much more accessible:
2 minReview of previous action itemsChairs
10 minUpdate on TEv2 progressThere has been no ctwg-tools-dev meeting today, due to holiday in CA. It has been rescheduled to Wednesday evening (PT)/Thursday morning (CEST). On TNO side, there is some work being done on TRRT, which is going to be used internally to see if everything works as expected, and then it will be integrated with the MRGT (which I hope will be up and running again soon with the hi-prio bugs fixed). This are slowly progressing...
15 minReport on Terminology Design Workshop for the Trust Spanning Protocol TF
The workshop was held on May 3. Since it was an interactive workshop, we did not keep detailed notes, however see the Meeting Notes page for screenshots and a link to the recording. The term we worked on during the workshop was "trust spanning".

One particular quote from the Zoom chat:

  • Rieks Joosten : "criterion: a text that everyone can evaluate to determine whether or not something is an instance/example of a particular concept. Evaluation leads to a yes/no result."

Rieks explained that it was an experiment for TNO in several ways, so it was just a first test. A few conclusions from this first test:

  • The organizers should take more control of the term(s) being chosen for discussion at the outset ("trust spanning" was too complex).
  • "Trust" and "appraisability" are similarly challenging concepts.
  • Such workshops seem to work differently within TNO than at ToIP — this is something the design team is currently reflecting on.
  • They intend to run more experiments.
  • One output is the idea for the new "Concept Quest" (see announcements above).

Rieks then shared two diagrams (#1 and #2 below) to explain his latest thinking on terminology development and conceptual models.

10 minNext steps on ToIP Glossary WorkspaceDrummond Reed It has been requested to move this to another Google Drive so that it can be shared outside of ToIP membership.
5 minTrust Decision workflowNeil Thomson 

We ran out of time for this agenda item.

ACTION: Drummond Reed to put Trust Decision Workflow Update on the agenda for the next meeting.

5 mins
  • Review decisions/action items
  • Planning for next meeting 

Screenshots/Diagrams (numbered for reference in notes above)

#1: provisional mental model that explains conceptual model from a cognitive science perspective. Note that subclasses of 'semantic unit' include concepts, relations between concepts, and properties of concepts.

#2: provisional mental model that extends #1 and explains what is needed for people to understand each other in the context of a collaboration. Note that 'Symbol' has been replaced by 'Term', and that a 'Criterion' has been added.


  • None.

Action Items

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