2022-03-28 SSI Harms USA/EU TF Meeting
15.00 UTC = 8:00 PT = 17:00 CET = 20:30 IST Zoom Meeting Link https://zoom.us/j/97159895478?pwd=emFjbU8xdWs0dE5iaE0zeDVZREFYQT09
Recording:
Attendees:
Agenda
Time | Item | Lead | Notes |
5 min |
| Darrell |
|
10mins | Intro's new members & Updates | All | |
5 mins | Update on Actions from Previous Meetings | All |
|
10 mins | Discussion on items raised in Slack & APAC meeting | Nicky | |
25 | Storyboard | Darrell | |
5 mins | Close & AOB | Nicky |
2022-03-17 SSI Harms APAC TF Meeting
6.00 UTC = 22:00 PT = 7:00 CET = 10:30 IST = 17:00 Melbourne = 13:00 Thailand Zoom Meeting Link https://zoom.us/j/95121109567?pwd=UFBrWU5PcC9RZS9UaFg1UG81WGZZdz09 Meeting ID: 951 2110 9567 Passcode: 082179
Attendees: Nicky HickmanEric Welton, John Phillips Jo Spencer
Agenda
Time | Item | Lead | Notes |
5 min |
| Darrell |
|
10mins | Intro's new members & Updates | All | |
5 mins | Update on Actions from Previous Meetings | All |
|
10mins | Review HXWG progress | All | - APAC Group to consider speakers. e.g. This is the group that we're connected to through our work with Swinburne University a few years ago: https://sigchi.org/ |
10 mins | Discussion on items raised in Slack & APAC meeting | Nicky |
1) Group of indigenous people - Pyrou Chung Eric - could be related to Family Unit below 2) Family unit: (Phil) A family where the notions of family aren't modeled where they live or travel. A polyamorous truple with kids and the six grand-parents. (intergenerational, doesn't conform to norms of marriage, complex guardianship) - West Africa polygamous families. Eric: Clans or groups in S Asia, 7 or 8 houses clustered together, kinship group. Variations on a theme - depends on kinship structures. Insight, many grandparents don't know their own age. Eric has found potential collaborators / folks on the ground who are able to help us build grounded persona
3) Children |
25 | Storyboard | Darrell | Outline Storyboard is here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1KoWjJx8LMwqNHKhAs-gK1uLdDL6zniIR/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102748924597224658467&rtpof=true&sd=true
Example from Eric - Living near a safe house for IDP (underground railroad) in west of Thailand (Korim) - He has all his papers and can move freely, he is becoming stateless so that he can get back into the camp in order to care for his elderly parents, familial obligations - giving up his legal identity to fulfill his duties. Corruptions in guards, violence associated with money and being able to leave the camp to work. Too strong an identity would prevent this. Harm of centralized model with biometrics = he is 'owned by the state' - can't remove yourself from the system. John: This is the group that we're connected to through our work with Swinburne University a few years ago: https://sigchi.org/ Eric: another group that is local to me, which may be helpful in identifying unique harms/risks is: https://kwahdao.org/ - their current director just graduated from law school and is one of their first students especially looking at stateless children. |
5 mins | Close & AOB | Nicky |
|
2022-03-14 SSI Harms TF Meeting
16.00 UTC = 8:00 PT = 17:00 CET = 20:30 IST Zoom Meeting Link https://zoom.us/j/98564220808?pwd=TlVHMDB2eHJGMlJHM2FnZVl2T0F1Zz09
Attendees: sankarshan Phil Wolff Jacques Bikoundou Nicky Hickman Christine Martin
Agenda
Time | Item | Lead | Notes |
5 min |
| Darrell |
|
10mins | Intro's new members & Updates | All | Name change of group to 'Balancing the Good, The Bad & The Ugly' This has been posted on linked in, at an earlier time slot, so to be resolved for next meeting cycle. Christine Martin - work with Darrell at Continuum Loop. EA and topic of interest. |
5 mins | Update on Actions from Previous Meetings | All |
Observation: Sometimes the drive to design solutions for crisis situations, e.g. Ukranian Refugees can itself lead to unittended harms or consequences because of speed & emotion.
|
10 mins | Discussion on items raised in Slack & APAC meeting | Nicky |
3) Children: (Sankarshan) The topic of harms around minors in context of travel came about when we were noodling on the GHP Travel related recommendations. As in - whether adoption of SSI based patterns will inadvertently enable harms to be easier, higher primarily because of weak adoption of guardianship and identifier best practices. 1) Group of indigenous people - Pyrou Chung 2) Family unit: (Phil) A family where the notions of family aren't modeled where they live or travel. A polyamorous truple with kids and the six grand-parents. (intergenerational, doesn't conform to norms of marriage, complex guardianship) - West Africa polygamous families. Eric: Clans or groups in S Asia, 7 or 8 houses clustered together, kinship group. Variations on a theme - depends on kinship structures. Insight, many grandparents don't know their own age. See lessons from Aadhar. Main challenge is inability to understand how the design of the system was successful or failed, also depends on adoption, enforcement, liabilities. EG Financial crimes are better handled through stronger regulation and enforcement. Currently a reputational issue for SSI because of misunderstandings and perceptions. Raises common issues such as governance and its enforcement in decentralized systems and the rights/human dignity issues. Danger is that we create an inventory of risks with mitigations, but could be counter-productive, but in long run we need to design better ways of representing living entities in digital formats. Is there a need to uniquely identify humans, personhood. Is it possible to do so without being political? Must nevertheless start somewhere and narrow scope. Use persona as test bed to check our thinking. Start with one persona and encourage others to build their own and engage this way. Perhaps children as easy for all to relate to and understand. Groups to consider: Those that are biometrically impaired,
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25 | Storyboard | Darrell | Outline Storyboard is here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1KoWjJx8LMwqNHKhAs-gK1uLdDL6zniIR/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102748924597224658467&rtpof=true&sd=true |
5 mins | Close & AOB | Nicky |
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2022-03-03 SSI Harms APAC TF Meeting
6.00 UTC = 22:00 PT = 7:00 CET = 10:30 IST = 17:00 Melbourne = 13:00 Thailand
Zoom Meeting Link https://zoom.us/j/95121109567?pwd=UFBrWU5PcC9RZS9UaFg1UG81WGZZdz09 Meeting ID: 951 2110 9567Passcode: 082179
Main Goal of this meeting: Intro to SSI Harms - agree next steps
Attendees: Nicky Hickman sankarshan Eric Welton Pyrou Chung; John Phillips
Agenda
Time | Item | Lead | Notes |
5 min |
| Darrell |
|
20mins | Intro's | All | Sankarshan - India, returning to ToIP following work absence, SSI Harms - harms created by solutionism and poor understanding, need to work through this topic to address Eric Welton - Thailand south of Myanmar border, been looking at SSI Harms for 5-6 years, because bulk of tech driven by heavily digitised communities (EU, USA) with civil liberties basis, but not the reality in countries like e.g. China, has SSI components but very centralised. Forcing view without asking people if they want to for example be financially included. No engagement, combined with new surveillance capabilities, many harms can arise, e.g. camera's. At the precipice of getting things done right or wrong. Pyrou Chung - Thailand Director at East West Mgt - Open Dev Initiative - focus on data governance meets tech meets human rights, one main focus related to Indigenous peoples for sovereign data rights includes identity, not allowed to assert their identity, so no existing rights within frameworks so if a new system comes in that doesn't take into consideration their right indigenous rights e.g. for accessing public services, could exacerbate existing Jo Spencer - (AUS) Initially drawn into the Guardianship WG realised that there was a model where we could put into place more certainty and controls with the right levels of trust and flexibility. Work in Sezoo with John Philips. Working with some parts of Gov. Indigenous identity a passion project, not the right people to do it. Once you have the tools, then can begin to tailor to needs of groups like indigenous peoples without the controls of government and surveillance capitalism. Not about the tech more about the social impact of what you are doing. Also some research w/ Universities around use of wallets. |
15 mins | Overview & Goals of the TF | All | Notes to ensure we include dissenting voices by having some outside sessions later on in the process
Open as to what happens once initial deliverables are provided Agree to focus on IIW for StoryBoard, and the stuff we are stuck on - where we have need for other views and help Keep the narrative - the tech won't save us!!! This is about humans, they are the builders of the good and bad stuff. 'No tech fix for the human condition!' APAC - Suggested change to Harms Mitigation Task Force. Example - Verifier pays issuer - what's the harm, what's the impact, what are the mitigations? Develop Persona to measure and manage harms/risk against. EG indigenous people, concept of collectivised identity is core to indigenous people, so we have a 'Persona Group' rather than a single individual, also link with Environment, e.g. things with digital identity, rivers in India, Uluru in Aus. How environment & lands are connected with identity of individuals and have their own (socio-centric vs ego-centric) - 'individual vs dividual'. (WRT respectful approaches to working with indigenous peoples, I've been impressed by the work of Terri Janke: https://www.terrijanke.com.au/true-tracks) Clash between two cultures e.g. Aus problem of indigenous incarceration problem. How can these interoperate when different social views of identity and ways of managing rights & accountabilities Example of Northern region crossing China, Laos, Myanmar, Thailand - very many different ethnic groups forced into mountains and e.g. Thai Union is forced upon them. Long history - yes identity is a political tool that is related to power & control. Consider land, connection, associations & movements of people. But note the cultural and spiritual connections to the land and deep within their psychographic identity. Also needs to be considered and catered for. Their own sovereign ability to govern the processes associated with technology. This is where governance comes into play regarding collectivised identity. Colonial narrative and mental models for example in forms of identity and governance models. Connection w/state services - collectivisation builds social capital and bargaining power w/state. Perhaps go further and find these folks to participate and help us build real case studies and examples. On the ground reality, need to be careful that we have real people in mind. |
15 mins | Discussion on next steps, plan | Nicky |
|
5 mins | Close & AOB | Nicky |
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2022-02-28 SSI Harms TF Meeting
16.00 UTC = 8:00 PT = 17:00 CET = 20:30 IST Zoom Meeting Link https://zoom.us/j/98564220808?pwd=TlVHMDB2eHJGMlJHM2FnZVl2T0F1Zz09
Main Goal of this meeting: Intro to SSI Harms - agree next steps
Attendees: Darrell O'Donnell Kaliya Young Kalin Nicolov Bart Suichies Jacques Bikoundou @Shireen Mitchell; Judith Fleenor
Agenda
Time | Item | Lead | Notes |
5 min |
| Darrell |
|
20mins | Intro's | All | Kaliya Young - Identity Women - IIW and 'Human First Tech' - advocating for more of these types of conversation, have threat model analysis paper . Naming harms of Web 1.0 & 2.0 Event Bart Suichies - No affiliation, active in SSI for 5-6 years, joined ToIP through SICPA. Interest in SSI in public sector, and use where active governance. Interested in figuring out where the lines are for what we can do as a community for solving societal problems. Paradox of powerful tools for dual use good / bad Kalin Nicolov - joined also as SICPA, currently co-chairing the HXWG - focused on connection point of HX design, interactions of ethics, incentive structures, points that are grey areas. Darrell O'Donnell - part of ToIP from beginning - focused on making it real and understanding harms. Affiliation - small boutique consultancy Shireen Mitchell - Here to have the conversation about harms - statelessness is only identifier we find racism, part of Human First Tech with Kaliya. Moments where we sit on the security line thinking about finance, but ignoring the impacts on 'real identity'. Some concerns with the white papers problem in defining people's identity by their vulnerability attributes Jacques Bikoundoublockchain developer, member of ToIP for 2 years, mainly involved in drafting GF documents, participated in CCI, interested because keen to understand how the technology can impact people Phil Wolffhere to contribute to the threat analysis & mitigate harms, possibly from a product management lens. Privacy advocate for 15 years, originally Oakland and now Pacific Northwest, consult for Wider Team on ID of things in healthcare. Led "Death to NSTIC" sessions at IIW to brainstorm and characterize threats to initiative success. Nicky: Freelancer Judith Fleenor, Director of Strategic Engagement for ToIP Jon Pinkes, technologist linked via Kaliya & IIW |
15 mins | Overview & Goals of the TF | All | Notes to ensure we include dissenting voices by having some outside sessions later on in the process
Open as to what happens once initial deliverables are provided Agree to focus on IIW for StoryBoard, and the stuff we are stuck on - where we have need for other views and help Keep the narrative - the tech won't save us!!! This is about humans, they are the builders of the good and bad stuff. 'No tech fix for the human condition!' |
15 mins | Discussion on next steps, plan | Darrell |
|
5 mins | Close & AOB | Darrell |
|