2023-01 & 02 - 02 Human Experience WG Meeting

Meeting timing so as not to clash with AIM Proposal - move from 1st Thursday to 4th Thursday of the month, this avoids clash with AIM.

John Phillips A process of open consultation for the Trusted Digital Identity Framework, TDiF (Aus Federal Framework for ID systems) including biometrics, due for public consumption in April in AUS - early view seen.  Extending to commercial entities.  Includes mention of VC's as a way forward.

Eric Drury what are the key use cases?  No - IDP framework (ID service provider) all relying parties are accredited, usual gov departments, also includes biometric service providers looking for accreditation to gain access to gov sources.  Jo Spencer Trying to build out the broader attribute ecosystem.  John Phillips Have separated out credential term to not mean OIDC auth cred, instead VC - paving the way - we are encouraged.

sankarshan same as 100 point check?  John Phillips no pre-dates TDIF which is an expansion of my.gov ID, expanding the ecosystem. 

Nicky Hickman here is link to UK system https://www.gov.uk/guidance/dcms-digital-identity-programme.  Key challenge is audit/ TA / accreditation process.  Same in Aus (Jo Spencer )

Eric Drury what is an IDP Jo Spencer = OIDC service provider, e.g. onboard to Mastercard

sankarshan he Union Government of India has decided that the Press Information Bureau is going to determine false news. https://thewire.in/government/any-news-pibs-fact-check-unit-calls-fake-must-be-taken-down-meity-proposal
“Authentic content” is going to become very interesting with synthetic media and especially LLMs/AI being able to do text, speech, images and video

John Phillips Based on a report from 2021: https://www.acma.gov.au/report-government-adequacy-digital-platforms-disinformation-and-news-quality-measures Mostly focused on online content delivered by major platforms
Now morphing into a wider net

Eric Drury reminded us that the IIW digital identity conference is in Bangkok next month, Kaliya Young and others will be coming in.

John Phillips unsure how this will work in multi-lingual / cultural environment, so concerned native english speakers concerned they will dominate. Need to be leading by example and supporting the adaptation to the Thai context.

Eric Drury at IMO border management conference, included biometric SPs, interesting connections ref identity on borders, porous borders require different solutions than PP's.  Interesting to look at ID for specific groups e.g. migrant labour.  Also met with someone from the Bali Process (combat human trafficking) how best to bring into the ID world and understand how to combat Social Media as grooming route.

John Phillips Recent Australian Research on Facial Recognition technologies and their potential harm(s): https://bridges.monash.edu/articles/chapter/Facial_recognition_technology_key_issues_and_emerging_concerns/21965732
John Phillips 7:34: "All told, the chapter argues that FRT remains a technology that should not be considered as a benign addition to the current digital landscape."
sankarshan 7:34: Evidently they haven’t used our DigiYatra system - “your face is your passport”  https://internetfreedom.in/digiyatra-part-2/

1st meeting next week, previously discussed moving this meeting HXWG to last thursday to avoid clash, if so, bi-weekly meeting in between for TF.

Alta and Andrew Slack have met and aligned on direction and purpose.

Need to convene; 

1st steps: review existing work and what needs are. Where are we now?

• Existing rituals around exchanging credentials and identity, what existing standards work that might constrain or lead the work.
• What is needed for control, for decision-making, differentiation between different types of wallets, dumb, custodial, smart, etc....
• Reaching out to OWF to understand how to mesh with their work. 
• Actions / Tasks around delivering 

TF deliverables = Where are we now before being propositional ie : Where do we want to be?

One question: What are the use cases we want to address? - let's see what comes back from the situational analysis to understand the best use cases to satisfy for breadth of requirement

'Conversation with Philip Sheldrake - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/live-die-review-draft-industry-paper-harms-ssi-philip-sheldrake/

John Phillips  first met Philip 2017-18 considering verb-like and noun-like. pre-dates generative identity.  He's still arguing about the idea of SSI, we've moved on from this.  We're not trying to solve the human identity problem. We are still burdened by the SSI trail.   Focusing on a historical problem.  

sankarshan   No practical implementations are even close to SSI Principles.  What we need is examining and critiquing the actual deployments.  We accept past views were ill-formed and we have moved on.  Origin of these ideas is different cultural root. 

Jo Spencer We don't have a social science framework to assess against.  

John Phillips positives:  can we achieve better diversity, can we find funding to bring others who can't afford to come into the room.  Can expand interests of academics etc.  Generative is fascinating but not relevant to the problem we are solving right now. 

Jo Spencer if we can't model things like Trust Registries, Harms frameworks etc, then we need more social sciences - approach then - rationale for HXWG.

John Phillips this conversation is not getting traction on linkedin

sankarshan in India biometrics are intimately linked with identity, if we are going to offer ToIP certified as a possibility then we need to look at protecting from these harms, just having social scientists in the room doesn't help.  Speed means we can't keep up.  We need to be a very solid stack, a single consolidated view of this in simple terms. 

APAC Agenda:  

• Kaya - Maori Identity Project ACTION Nicky to invite to do expert talk.
• Andrew Slack commented excited about this expert series, bringing in diverse voices and cultures, how can we bring in these types of voices into USA / EU call?  - Real people / users!  good for x-cultural understanding and sharing of ideas/ best practice.  They are experts.

• Nicky Hickman said for harms we would do 

  • V2

  • Cheat Sheet

  • Implementation guide

• HXWG - architecturally in ToIP is it an overlay or a stack?    

• Andrew Slack important question, how do we take it out of the group and make it part of development of this tech, how HX maps is important.  Is there really a human stack, or is it something that permeates all of it.  How do we then provide tools and ways of engaging with this complex area, difficult to engage when under pressure from business imperatives.

• Eric Drury - explainability, asking them to do things differently rather than explaining what's happening, what they're consenting to - UX

• John Phillips People have had "some" success promoting concepts such as "privacy by design" and "security by design", perhaps we need "humanity by design" - 'humanity experience' because human-centric by design is focused on an individual.  Terri Ianke - 'country-centred design' concept of whole ecosystem by design
• https://www.terrijanke.com.au/post/terri-s-new-book-true-tracks-respecting-indigenous-knowledge-and-culture-released
• SICPA leading a workpackage on new EU Digital Wallet includes UX components, can we learn from this and bring back into the group.

Potential to apply for grants etc e.g. NGI https://www.ngi.eu/event/next-generation-internet-info-session-on-pilots-and-internet-common/

Andrew Slack -  some projects in commercial world to understand more about user experience and humans, so understanding of new value for these technologies by solving specific community needs.  Perhaps to examine opportunities to target ToIP affiliates or members who were supportive of this, making links to specialists or other expertise who would otherwise be difficult to source.   Finding the right people to work with is difficult.  How do I find the right people to work with and find the right way to connect with them?