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2022-09-15 BGBU APAC TF Meeting
6.00 UTC = 23:00 PT = 8:00 CET = 11:30 IST = 16:00 Melbourne = 13:00 Thailand Zoom Meeting Link https://zoom.us/j/95121109567?pwd=UFBrWU5PcC9RZS9UaFg1UG81WGZZdz09 Meeting ID: 951 2110 9567 Passcode: 082179
MEETING RECORDING
Notes from the APAC Meeting are recorded in the Table below in green text
Attendees: Oskar van Deventer sankarshan Nicky Hickman
2022-09-12 SSI HARMS BGBU TF USA/EU TF Meeting
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Time | Item | Lead | Notes |
5 min | Welcome & antitrust notice Agenda review | Nicky | Antitrust Policy Notice: Attendees are reminded to adhere to the meeting agenda and not participate in activities prohibited under antitrust and competition laws. Only members of ToIP who have signed the necessary agreements are permitted to participate in this activity beyond an observer role. |
10mins | New intro's & updates | Phil Wolff FTC public hearing on online harms (link) - 5 hours long so anyone who listens and can summarise - please share. sankarshan will take a look | |
40mins | Reviewing sections of paper | Nicky | Great discussion and feedback on ROUGH draft of paper overall - CONCERNS and arising discussion points
@philwolff commented that remove SSI & Harms in same sentence. As scope expands - expect harms to arise - thinking about 'the precautionary principle' earlier is better.
Darrell O'Donnell - main input interesting - stories are useful, but A-bomb might be distracting - what do we replace it with? Oskar van Deventer - not A-bomb, better use cars and safety belts. SSI is already safer than DigID (e.g. mitigations) . See comments in Discussion doc Phil Wolff commented that not sure why we would write a white paper format as a ToIP deliverble, storytelling is not Phil Wolff commented that not sure why we would write a white paper format as a ToIP deliverble, storytelling is not so much what ToIP has been done, especially w/formal analysis. Part of scholarship is to remove personal opinions - have intellectual riguour & discipline, not sure what role this has in ToIP. Is there more value in scholarly approach vs blog posts that are snackable and might together build momentum. Christine Martin not sure about value of white paper vs blog posts e.g. Phil Wolff if I am a product manager considering my process for product design & launch - then a white paper might not be the first tool I would go for. Want a step-by-step toolkit for mitigating harms, and considering risks to human harms in our process, then does this have a completeness or 'doneness' then 'no'. Actions you can take on Monday - what are they?! - needs to be a concrete deliverable for the team monday to include in process of product development How do we identify most impactful harms and then keep working through? What is the systematic way that you are paying attention to harm? How do you know you have those systems in place? How does c-suite know it's being taken care of? How do you as a group / ecosystem look at these different types of harm? Embedding in standard risk management / security awareness processes Needs to start somewhere - acknowledging that harms exist is good but need tools for rigour. start by acknowledging harm sankarshan need to before white paper - perhaps do a design workshop w/ a persona, does the ToIP meet requirements to prevent harms? Does design-thinking include right questions to address harms. Make other groups accountable for actions to emerge from activities? e.g. influencing standards. How can we exert influence and then provide oversight? This group could then provide evaluation of output of other tasks. Otherwise there will be an air gap between a whitepaper and action? Also will help with collaboration. sankarshan close doc and then break out and share with group. Initiate a process, culture and capability w/in ToIP and wider community to begin addressing systematically over time. Transfer ownership back to the community and x-pollinate w/other groups. Applies to everyone - what's the litmus test. Nicky Hickman Use guardianship model - white paper followed by more practical technical requirements/ implementation guide. Darrell O'Donnell and Christine Martin do both . sankarshan has been looking at document and review comments also reviewed HXWG expert series - suggests continuously raising. Outstanding:
Key Questions: John Phillips created a web form for this - looking forward to finding out the responses on Thursday during APAC Call. Is this Fit for Purpose??? Does it say what you want it to say? Key discussion points are in this document: |
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