Meeting Schedule


Agenda Items

  • Welcome

  • Carly will discuss updates to Learning Pathways

  • Eric will lead a discussion on ecosystem classification matrix

  • Community discussion

Presentation Files


Meeting Recording

Meeting Notes

  • Welcome & Introductions
  • Ecosystem Classification Matrix

  • Trying to get more 'real world' about the conversations we are having, starting by understanding ecosystems.  So what does our ecosystem look like here at ToIP
  • One of the challenges is monetization - what is the business model?
  • Operational business models - ID Union, Evernym, IBM, cheqd, Trinsic, please add to this - who's actually making money or with real businesses at work.  See wiki page with resource categories.  S/W business models work, Bottom Left is where many discussions are taking place - getting to operational biz models top right.  How do you get to the top right?
  • Where are the gaps (bottom?) Bottom right is the target for ecosystem foundry wg.  Who will use them, how do we get them to paying clients.
  • A way to map maturity of business models, what can we learn from what is already operational?
  • Who should be on left vs right?

Carly:  Lots of tech are here - where do governance / auditing business cases fit e.g. Scott Perry's business Schellman

Answer - (tools / service)

Also add Training in operational business models?

Steve:  Yoma to add to the top right - currently biz model is funding - have sustainable future model, but now not commercial

Subra: Argument about adopting this tech in terms of the end business outcome, describing or articulating the value is hard to do.  That's why so much in PoC's.  Experimenting with different business models.  

Nicky: "you can also add Boniffi to the operational top right corner"

Carly:"Does Grifter fit in here?"

Phil asks: "What decisions are we trying to trigger or influence with a classification matrix? What unknowns are we seeking to uncover by this? I worry that operational vs. prospective is conflating where you live in an ecosystem with an ecosystem lifecycle or ecosystem health status."

Nicky: "This is a maturity model, I think some environmental / contextual and external factors also need to be considered. Also this might be useful, we had a Business of SSI TF in Sovrin a couple of years ago"

Steve M: Need a solution that stands on its own, a using business canvas value-based model is needed.

Vlad Z: ETS have been working for a year and still trying to solve the business model 

Carly: what are the general problems - where are the successes, what can we learn from  

Steve: ETS has done a good job articulating the challenge - we'd love to hear directly from ETD. Most problems are not technological, they are process and revenue problems.

Kyle: difficulty understanding where they

John Kirby : important to show ecosystem participants over the ToIP layer stack. A lot are the platforms, and APIs

Judith: commenting on Vlad, what is the problem space, and then build solutions to the problems - so Vlad's input would be 

What does the ecosystem look like, but convoluting with the business models. three things are happening simultaneously Should start with ecosystem, then  

Phil: quadrants don't seem useful, it's more like the life of an entity, what are we measuring? Business health has other inputs rather than financial - compliance or to contribute to supply chain... Could do a value network map - how do they interact.

Carly: Do we have users at different levels of the ToIP stack or is it useful to think of users of the entire ecosystem. Is ecosystem really a separate level of the stack or is it a derived state from the lower three levels doing their thing.

Nicky: I think we are all focused on layer 4 for me, apart from cheqd, all these business models are classic B2B IT models. This is the number one question everyone in the community is asking. Spent 20 years helping companies make money out of identity . USE VALUE CHAINS. Map not just the flow of money, but of product, service and data - within existing supply chain, and wider ecosystem . That way can do a lot - pinpoint gaps and disconnects . Then can figure out how peer or web3 model can . Classic value chain - different kinds of value, then line up with product, money, and data.

WIth Yoma we used domain modelling- enables to model an ecosystem, with actors and roles, with incentives and risks - at business layer have incentives that are not only monetary. We can access the tool and take time to do modelling. Shows functionally how the ecosystem works.

Vlad "Gaps Nicky talks about - lay out in terms of map - one side is providers, issuers, proxy issuer model to actual issuer ... that may help. One challenge - how does one know that a particular wallet subscribe to ToIP model? Would help if ToIP can vouch for that vendor.

Kyle: @Carly - great question. Ideally "Users" will participate in multiple ecosystems. In the ToIP model, they may use a common Agent/Wallet (Layer 2) to participate with multiple credentials in multiple ecosystems. Users will also most likely have multiple Agents/Wallets to be able to participate in ecosystems built in different technologies.

Judith: The matrix does three different things: 1. Who's in the Ecosystem, and where. 2. Then tool to find out who's using what? 3. Business model. 

How do we map to the ToIP model? Tech stack - here are the Layer 1 utilities, and orgs need to know what the choices are ... Here are my needs - so who meet those needs?

Phil: perhaps Pioneer/Settler/TownPlanner for scoring technology/service/business/industry maturity. #WardleyMap goes with Value Network Analysis.

Carly: What are the 'must have' features of a ToIP ecosystem?

Judith: Design principle based - trust architecture is built, then can build on top...

Who are the reliable vendors? Currently takes some vendors - would be helpful to see it all laid out

Kapil: We can also differentiate based on Application Providers Middleware Providers Infrastructure Providers

Subra: endorse Vlad's observation - we should get to that! One entry that is missing, is the DHS work, stressing the need for interop. Verifiers have to deal with different kinds of credentials. Also - primary utility of this matrix 

Nicky: kudos to steve for the framework - great conversation

Kyle: mapping out for Open Earth - share slide

Kapil: Great discussion! What I’ll call a “single-sided” approach, as opposed to a two-sided or three-sided marketplace, is where a single participant gets value from verifiable credentials.

Carly discussed Learning Pathways. Confluence is good home for the moment.

A good Learning Pathway might be "Introduction to ToIP"

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