Meeting Date

  • The CTWG meets bi-weekly on Mondays at 10:00-11:00 PT / 18:00-19:00 UTC. See the ToIP Calendar for the full schedule.

Zoom Meeting Recording


Agenda Items and Notes (including all relevant links)

TimeAgenda ItemLeadNotes
3 min
  • Start recording
  • Welcome & antitrust notice
  • Introduction of new members
  • Agenda review
  • Antitrust Policy Notice: Attendees are reminded to adhere to the meeting agenda and not participate in activities prohibited under antitrust and competition laws. Only members of ToIP who have signed the necessary agreements are permitted to participate in this activity beyond an observer role.
  • New Members: none.
5 minGeneral announcementsAll

Any news and updates of general interest to CTWG members

  • Neil Thomson said that he spoke with Savita Farooqui and the Governance Stack WG is going to separate out the private-to-private / peer-to-peer ("Alice-to-Bob") uses cases and Neil is going to develop a mental model around the trust establishment, trust tasks, trust checkpoints, and trust history workflow.
    • This is in contrast to the many consumer-to-business uses cases.
    • Neil would like to be able to run his mental model ideas by Rieks Joosten for his feedback.
    • Rieks Joosten asked if Neil Thomson could focus on what the participants will be able to do with these P2P scenario uses of the ToIP stack that they would not be able to do without it. This is the best criteria for deciding what is the highest priority for the mental model.
    • Neil: there is a lot of plumbing involved with reaching a data agreement — a consent to a filter on a data set. ISO 27560 is the data agreement spec.
    • Candidate audience/model types
      • Three parties are involved: the developer of the components, the supplier of the data, and the consumer of the data.
      • Core library technical -> Dev user of core libraries -> HUMINT (human interface) -> public consumer
    • The important output in terms of a cohesive whole is the consumer who must understand the choices they are making.
  • Henk van Cann shared: "Docusaurus, concepts, terms and glossaries -> We’ve been testing with front-end editing and signing:"
2 minReview of previous action itemsChairs
5 minUpdate on TEv2 progress
  • Chadha is progressing on TRRT - generating popups from MRG glossaryText-fields. Also, she's doing some bugfixing that has to do with 'navurl's (that don't yet have good values in the MRG)
  • Ryan has been working on MRG bugfixing, and getting to know his way around. Things seem a bit more complicated than anticipated, and Ryan is moving into a new house. Also, Ryan has been working on the ingestion tools for wiki-pages. It appears that access to wiki-pages is not as simple as access to 'regular' doc-pages. 

ACTION: Judith Fleenor find a way to help Brian Richter and his team with the EasyCLA issue to that it does not become a blocker for the use of the TEv2 tool.

10 minUpdate on GitHub maintenanceJudith Fleenor Henk van Cann This group still needs to meet.
10 minUpdate on TSWG Glossary WorkspaceDrummond Reed Neil Thomson  

Here is the current ToIP Glossary Workspace Google doc. Drummond will share more about the process the TSWG is following.

Neil Thomson suggested we have two different audiences for our outputs:

  1. Specification writers and architects.
  2. Developers and UI/UX designers who need a simpler operational understanding.

Rieks Joosten shared his experience with EU Data Spaces that there are many different audiences. This leads to two different types of challenges:

  1. These different participant groups understanding each other's concepts without having to harmonize their terms.
  2. The collective group as a whole wanting to communicate with an outside audience—in which case the pressure is to pick one unified model.

The latter case requires that one coherent overall model to be developed that can be used to author different texts for external audiences.

Drummond Reed gave an overview of the ToIP Glossary Workspace as it is evolving.

Rieks Joosten said that readers of ToIP deliverables don't necessarily care about the details — it is the implementers of the technology who really need the detail.

  • The example he used is the 30 terms the Intuit have for what in English we just call "snow".
  • So Rieks advise that we concentrate on what the actual implementers need. He used the example of drill bits in the Netherlands in 4, 5, 6, and 8mm sizes. 7mm drill bits are not used in the Netherlands.

Neil Thomson wants to make sure that definitions in the TSWG Glossary need to address the business users and informed laypersons, not deep technologists.

Rieks said that in the Data Spaces project, they are trying to distinguish between texts that are written for external audiences and those that are written for internal audiences.

  • For the former, it is important if any term is used that is not a widely understood term, rather than using the term, you replace it with the criteria the term needs to describe.
  • This also serves as a check to see if the criteria are the same everyplace.
  • Neil said that: "The introductory text needs to do a "narrative" involving the terms (and how they interact)".
  • Rieks pointed out that the eSSIF-Lab terms have two narratives: one that introduces the formalized model, then after the formal model, there is a narrative that explains the terms in more detail.
  • Neil also suggested that use cases can help further illustrate that narrative.
  • For the latter (internal documents), you can use terms that are hyperlinked to their glossary definitions.
20Mental Models Task ForceAll

See this proposed charter. Discuss how we might want to proceed.

Rieks Joosten said that from his experience, the most effective mental models are those that directly address the needs of the business people requiring a solution.

We ran out of time to discuss this.

  • ACTION: Drummond Reed to put the Mental Models Task Force on the agenda for the next meeting.
5 mins
  • Review decisions/action items
  • Planning for next meeting 

Rieks Joosten will be on vacation for the next meeting on April 10.


  • None

Action Items

  • ACTION: Judith FleenorHenk van Cann, and Andor Kesselman to develop recommendations for sustainable GitHub maintenance, including definitions of the skills and roles needed and how a ToIP GitHub Support Group should be formed and maintained.
  • ACTION: Judith Fleenor find a way to help Brian Richter and his team with the EasyCLA issue to that it does not become a blocker for the use of the TEv2 tool.
  • ACTION: Drummond Reed to put the Mental Models Task Force on the agenda for the next meeting.

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