2022-07-28 HXWG Meeting

Judith Fleenor ToIP Summit at Open Source Summit in Dublin 14 /09 14.00 - 17.30 - please register asap here https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/register/ .  Need to register for the Linux Open Source Summit first then ToIP mini-summit is free.  Will give first public presentation of the ToIP ref Arch spec. Neil Thomson asked if was available livestreamed, Judith Fleenor responded that they were exploring virtual livestream for summit.

Rebooting Web of Trust is also in September in Hague. https://www.weboftrust.info/

Pay attention to the ToIP calendar, as many WG's suspended to account for EU holidays.

ISWG is going to be reformed/restructured  with Neil Thomson as chair, will look at data modelling & data services to be presented at the Aug 10th plenary & then voted on in Sept.

Nicky Hickman asked about relationship w/ HXWG

Neil Thomson - not sure, storage & portable, data agreements WG, consent of consent, collaboration w/ DIF.  How do you capture consents, and how do you model it to enable MRG.  plumbing under HX / UX. What's the Human Readable Packaging.  

Phil Wolff is working on "Consent Doesn't Scale"  for mid July Summer. Writing prompts are done (about 1300 words so far) and everyone is invited to answer anything.  Perhaps collaboration w/ ISWG reset to get this one finalised & out the door.

Neil Thomson what is the publicly acceptable process for consent & how do we get it out there?  The answer is NOT AI.

Kalin Nicolov the implicit and explicit consent - how is the collection of those shared on a single screen, allowing INFORMED consent

Andrew Slack  Scenarios deliverable on wiki as learning pathway.  

Approval process:  Judith Fleenor advised that HXWG can approve if published on the wiki.  As a learning pathway - should be housed w/ EFWG. 

• Nicky Hickman check w/ Carly Huitema ref approach for 'approval' of LP's.

• Reflections on the Expert Series add slack or add comment in wiki, 
• Add questions for 'interview the implementers'

Nicky Hickman Harms TF . - 1st draft for internal review 8th Aug, 1st Draft public review mid-late sept

Judith Fleenor as a formal deliverable, must be first approved in this group, then sent to the steering committee for review & approval (at least 7 days prior to the meeting the are voting on it).  Target October Steering Committee: - 12th October.

Proposal for breaking down the SSI Harms work 

1) Incentivised Socio-Technical Systems or Socio-Economic-Technical Systems (See this abstract & outline) Will frame how sustainable livelihood outcomes can be designed into Socio-Technical Systems including economic exchange relating livelihood assets to the six capitals.

Neil Thomson commented that economic was insufficient because does not accommodate policy / compliance, from an architecture perspectives here are base concepts & requirements for architecture, e.g. no single fixed & persistent identifier. What do the technical requirements look like?

Vikas Malhotra commented, if every transaction from an SSI wallet can be tracked back to a unique entity, this fuels surveillance society.   This will be the wrong direction. Not only economics but also (e.g. BMW charging for heated seats capacity in cars, here is a transactional model where a person who was a supposed to have rights to something, but now charged for) How could VC's play a role in this situation 

Kalin Nicolov need to connect w/ consent  - HX community must demonstrate the relationship between HX (e.g. consent of BMW customer), is more about incentives than economics, juicy part of the strategy sandwich, what are the outcomes - SO WHAT for practical implementation.   What are the other outcomes. 

Shireen commented that she was nervous about terms such as capital and economics - creates a change in mindsets - talking about people who are in vulnerable states and this does not necessarily be included in metrics, systems or be visible, e.g. emotional vulnerability, the need for witnessing concerns me - because calculation based on visible vulnerabilities.  We have to accommodate what is unseen (e.g. most disabled people have hidden disabilities

From Neil Thomson to Everyone 05:54 PM
Your comments suggest that a list of vulnerabilities needs to be collected, including looking at specific areas (e.g., emotional vulnerability)

From Judith Fleenor (Trust Over IP) to Everyone 05:54 PM
@Nicky I like trying to get things into terms Business will pay attention too.

Shireen - Because of the way we attribute value to a 'body' we end up in conflicts, and exclusion - e.g. w/disability in businesses - is a business cost, is the value set that we are struggling w/ Even some of this value is not calculated because of the value or vulnerabilities we cannot see.  EG can't see the cancer, that still has a set of needs and impacts on their ability to work & be productive.

Neil Thomson Without regulation everything is a race to the bottom, creates level playing field, a way of making things that do have an economic cost, get the vulnerabilities on the table and relate back to SSI, and figure out how to treat that.  One of the benefits of SSI e.g. is no need for identification, simple proof of claims.  

Kalin Nicolov - inaugural video of ToIP - our mission in the goal and see everything that was once was constrained be pulled in as inputs.  How about we give them the metrics to prove that they are diverse or that they are compliant?  e.g. for ESG, compliance, audit purposes.  Verifiable compliance and support for HX/ impacts.

Shireen - we need to flesh this out, even 'compliant' worries me, concerns that implementing policy can affect some groups more than others, e.g. grooming policies affecting black women because of the way their hair grows.

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this enables us to clearly frame harms in relation to human agency, resiliency and control of livelihood assets

2) SSI Harms specifically addresses those trust tasks related to digital identity 

to ensure that all ToIP members are able to act on these insights and knowledge

3) iSTS business case & implementation guide

Could also be strategy toolkit, to understand what this means and how far we go. 

throughout we will keep it real and grassroots based, but testing our models and illustrating implementation recommendations with

4) Case Studies

a) Livable Wage Jobs (a Californian NfP focused on youth education and employment)

b) Open-Source Ag (a Californian NfP focused on sustainable community food systems)

c) East-West Management Initiative's Indigenous Data Sovereignty project (an international NfP focused on human rights of indigenous people)

d).... your case study

Working on terms: We have our Terms Wiki & Curators (Nicky Hickman & Andrew Slack & Phil Wolff ) - Can be directly into Wiki, or ingested via This g-doc

Reflecting on Expert Series - we would like to gather thoughts and write a summary blog after digestion & reflection.  Add those thoughts to slack

Preparing next expert series - Interview the Implementer Please add your questions here or in slack

Reviewing the SSI Harms paper which will be in first draft by end Week 1 August...