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16.00 UTC = 9:00 PT = 12.00 ET =18:00 CEST = 21:30 IST Zoom Meeting Link https://zoom.us/j/99429712733?pwd=K214bTM4cG54YzZYVnZCL1I5MEdQQT09

Meeting Recording:  https://zoom.us/rec/share/6zh9TJdTwlwbVnzzFWHrd9McPPe3tUuhMgsKVdWqyrFkuoG9T_ONscJvVeL2tYX4.Uh95Mu3I0qrYxztt?startTime=1655395038000

Main Goal of this meeting: Expert Series 

...

TimeItemLeadNotes
5 mins
  • Welcome & antitrust notice

  • Agenda review
Kalin
  • Antitrust Policy Notice: Attendees are reminded to adhere to the meeting agenda and not participate in activities prohibited under antitrust and competition laws. Only members of ToIP who have signed the necessary agreements are permitted to participate in this activity beyond an observer role.

  • Join ToIP if not already a member
    • Consent to meeting recording?


10minsIntro's & UpdatesKalin

Schedule of meetings for July.  Using the summer period for reflection, and to look for improvements, 

30th June = Scenario Building Deliverable Focus (Andrew Slack ; Shireen Mitchell Bentley Farrington also working on)

14th July = SSI Harms update

28th July = Finalise Deliverables & plan questions for Implementer interviews

Implement the implementer calls starting with Dan Gisolfi in September

Intro from Neil Thomson - working in other groups

Marzi West from Sales Force, session mentioned by Manu


40minsThe Story of Palm TouchstoneManu Chatterjee

Manu will share the stars and scars from building trusted things. The story of Palm Touchstone including visuals and background on why the technology was developed and how it was created.  It is a story of product design and has some odd turns such as manufacturing and management bumps, a Dr Dre video, and how sometimes things don't quite work out as intended. We are examining the pioneering spirit, learnings and challenges around designing “things”, their identity context and what we can port forward in our exploration of trusted exchanges.

I am an electrical engineer by training, but spent most time in s/w engineering, many years at motorola designing 

I want to make products that people love to use - not just the how (e.g. 

acquired by Palm, became head of Advanced Technologies - normally the problem that this is where products go to die.  Palm very supportive of innovation



At the time not so crazy - Android not there, iPhone not dominant.  3 ideas in UX that made it different

We need some kind of practical magic - something that brings something to life instantly, not deep in the s/w

watched people selling / buying phones - iPhone was like a shrine - where should the palm pre be - if we're in the rows of boxes we'll never stand out and compete.

all old and plasticky, and iPhone was cool  = what if we could do all these things together in a contactless way - not wired, wireless don't know what's the connected, so tapping - the physical process is a trusted experience delivered through the feedback of the tap.

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started with powerpoint to present idea to senior leadership - blunt response - "apple tried this and couldn't get it to work"- so let's move from pictures to demo

"a picture might be worth a thousand words, but a demo is worth a thousand pictures"!

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used it to go from office to office to show that it worked, and the all hands meeting on a tuesday

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So they asked me to commit to making it happen - I agreed! - team of only 2 - no proven power tech, we needed all the electronics in back cover 

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Need to catch up to the device manufacturing train.  

Demo didn't include what was needed in the commercial product

Next - hired the team

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deeply immersed in non-user-centric questions - just pragmatic things

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big debate about things like use of NFC standards for data exchange - 

problem with magnets in phone for example, had to be steel in device and magnets in mate

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impacts UX - what is displayed to do with the orientation of the phone - lots of thought

s/w design, 

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Very complex design

Within 10 months we had designed to product

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remember 'practical magic'

But sadly didn't live to see production - because senior leaders so impressed with Touchstone

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Interesting environment at the time - great response - I wanted more, but 

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But before that could happen - great reviews but 

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Do we correct this ?  but expose margins throughout the chain - seen as $65 profit for palm - but didn't want to betray to apple what it really cost us.  the PR conundrum was interesting.

Urban myth - palm & apple had a lot of execs between 2 teams and so both knew eachother well, and Steve Jobs was well aware of everything but not touchstone stealth team.

So angry he threw a touchstone against the wall - I got the biggest bonus of my career!

Problem - didn't know about data sharing beaming etc - more magic

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Then HP bought palm - and HP most interested in Web OS, responding to Microsoft Windows (still dominant). 

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At HP, touchstone tech was proposed...:

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Now switching from ideal to making it happen - then market explodes - reliance on the chips and whole balance of risks 

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We were pleased with results - you could do magical things.  

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See video for commercial - actually all core tech there - but not shipped as a product

growing up in 90's - so rap fan - and in the real video is a picture of Dr Drey's medical imaging using my tech!

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So much promise!  - but crash - HP changes CEO's and killed the whole mobile computing line

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Sold to qualcomm and really about wireless charging - NFC and payments would come later, but data sharing never really adopted - fragmentation through IP sales

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Epilogue - coming back to life w/apple

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Acknowledgements

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Neil Thomson - the touch is important - mechanism - the human gets it -

Manu  touch is a q that is important in building trust - 

Neil Thomson - in consent pages too long - how do we just agree an

Nicky Hickman

  • One of the themes is the story of persuasion in a big organization; the political and sales process and the interaction with the product/design work.
  • Another theme: biometrics were tried for accessing restricted drugs in medical wards; they found that biometric signatures worked best because the physicality of the gestures were both more trusted and more understood. Third observation: the relationship between devices and soft services is vital.
    • Manu: biometrics are readily understandable but cautious because once they're not secret, it's for life. 
  • Work in ToIP community shows physical objects (tangible cards, certificates) improve perceptions of trust and behavior.
  • Q. Do you think Apple's success killed or slowed innovation among device manufacturers?
    • Manu: has suppressed some innovation because of market dynamics / reality - 
  • Manu: How do you make cryptography trustable to someone who doesn't understand it - maybe there's a way you can audit e.g. a ballot machine as a lay person - there is a way on the outside to watch the voting machine work - what are the tech we can use to evidence the cryptography in action
  • Q. Anything you'd have done differently? Lessons learned from trying to go from idea to market?
  • Many things in the touchstone universe were outside our scope to change / control e.g. HP acquisition - in start-ups you can control the focus, so in large corps you have to spend time evangilising the whole time just to stop getting de-funded. You have to be very pushy to get things done in a big company.

Phil Wolff would you have decoupled the charging from the other cool features at time IP was being sold off

Manu: out of my pay grade - they licensed to everyone - so sold a lot of the patents to Qualcomm - very acquisitive - required touchstone so was just bundled up with Web OS. 

5minsClose & AOBKalinwill be on wiki and on you tube